Documenters: Rootstown Township Trustees meeting for Feb. 28, 2023

Rootstown Township Trustees

Feb. 28, 2023

5:30 p.m.

Listen to an audio recording of the meeting:


Joseph Paulus, Chair

Dave McIntyre, Vice Chair

Brett Housley, Trustee

Julie Gonzales, Administrative Assistant

Bill Hahn, Road Superintendent

Jordan Michael, Zoning Administrative Assistant

Charles Palmer, Fire Chief

Documenter’s Notes

The meeting was called to order at 5:30 p.m. and opened with the Pledge of Allegiance. The minutes from Feb. 14 were approved. 

In the interest of time, the trustees moved to department reports before holding a scheduled public hearing on zoning amendments at 5:40 p.m.


Road Superintendent Bill Hahn received three quotes for a new mower. The board voted to approve the purchase of a new Scag mower with a four-year warranty; the township will trade in a mower. Hahn reported three funerals.


Fire Chief Charles Palmer reminded the board that he will be out of town for the following two days on township business. Palmer instructed the trustees on two administrative matters: the cancellation of insurance premiums for a former employee, and the removal of a pension withholding for a former full-time firefighter who resigned but remains with the department in a part-time capacity. Trustee Brett Housley asked the chief if his department had responded to a recent potential shooter incident. Palmer said the department is not trained to respond to such incidents, though upcoming training events are on the schedule.

Public Hearing for Zoning Amendments

The zoning commission has been working to tighten the language of the code book. The language of two amendments was modified for the purpose of specificity. 

Section 350.12.I Waste Matter, Commercial Districts was amended to refer to the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 3734.01 and to replace the word “excess” with “discarded.”

Section 370.10.I Waste Matter, Industrial Districts was also amended to refer to the Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 3734.01 and to replace the word “excess” with “discarded.”

Both amendments passed without comment from the community members who had gathered. The public hearing was closed at 5:46 p.m.


Zoning Administrative Assistant Jordan Michael reported three permits since the last meeting: a deck, residential solar panel, and a demolition permit. A resolution was passed to proceed with civil prosecution against Jessica Marzec for multiple violations including: unlicensed vehicles, people living in a camper, sheds without permits, and an outdoor woodburner. 

Michael distributed a document regarding Open Spaces. The board deliberated about the township’s zoning policies for around half an hour. [Documenter’s explanation: Open Space policies are commonly required by zoning code in residential developments. These properties are owned by the developer, contractor, or homeowners association (HOA). When an owning entity, including an HOA, dissolves, then the ownership, maintenance and use of the property deemed Open Space becomes unclear due to deed restrictions. This discussion is not unique to Rootstown Township.] The board did not reach a conclusion at this meeting.

A lengthy discussion about a fence violation on Lynn Road followed. The property in question has changed hands three times. The current owner pulled a permit for the fence to surround a trash-disposal area in the fall but cannot complete construction during the winter months. While the property has been in violation, the owner’s permit is valid for one year. The current owner has received a courtesy letter and a violation letter. No consensus was reached. 

Citizen Comments

Zoning Committee member Roger Carpenter, acting in the role of citizen, asked the board to individually state its “feelings on new allotments in the community. Do we want more, or do we not?” Vice Chair Dave McIntyre stated that he favored them “as long as they’re done smartly,” citing proper road standards and sidewalks. Chair Joseph Paulus referred to the need to maintain a 75% residential, 25% commercial properties balance. Housley stated his commitment to the land-use plan as adopted by community survey. Carpenter stated that he is trying to stop developments due to the community’s desire to retain its rural appeal. “Am I spinning my wheels by trying to push something?” an animated Carpenter asked. “No,” Paulus responded. 

Dr. Joe Gadd added that the earlier-discussed violation should have been addressed when the deed was transferred to the current owner. Gadd reminded the board that the current Open Space policy was to accommodate the land-use plan and to “provide the developer with a reasonable outlet for retention.” He recommended that new residential developments, without an HOA, be assessed to care for the required Open Spaces. Gadd asked that the trustees celebrate Ohio’s birthday the following day by raising the Ohio flag.

Old Business

Housley reported receiving the Recreational Trails Program Grant, received by only 12 communities, in the amount of $100,227. The township also has been moved to the second phase for the Capital Budget Grant, and the township was sent the grant agreement and asked that paperwork be forwarded to legal council. Housley was made the official representative to handle details of the NOPEC grant in the amount of $17,520.

McIntyre reported that he had heard from Matt Weber, the engineer overseeing the sewer project in the township park. McIntyre submitted an expected expense sheet for the project – a total estimated at $640,000. The board discussed the parameters of the sewer project.

New Business

The trustees discussed pursuing a grant writer, paid by percentage of award, to write grants for the township. 

Executive Session

The trustees convened into executive session at 7 p.m. to discuss the employment of a public employee or official. This documenter departed before adjournment.


The following transcript was generated by a transcription bot and is not 100% accurate. The Portager does not edit the AI-generated transcript. We understand the automatic transcript can be very inaccurate.

Rootstown 2.28

Thu, Mar 02, 2023 4:19PM • 1:30:27


township, permit, road, property, hoa, zoning, grant, talking, violation, land, put, moving, thought, fence, deed restriction, land use plan, open, deadline, space, motion


You know, 535 30




got it. I got it still fine. It’s still 530 Okay. And we’re all right with the pledge please. Loud and Proud


one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty justice. I just let you know. I did not hear prep at all.


And no, I didn’t either. But you hand over your heart, but I guess you know the first to do that for you kind of


did. I was correct.


All right, let’s jump right in here and be quick and efficient. resolution for to prove the limits the minutes from February 14.


I’ll make a motion to approve the motion February 14. I’ll second. Right. All right. All right. We


do have a public hearing in seven or eight minutes so we can move on in the meantime, either any of you guys need to be out here real quick. All right, let’s start with roads since this first one is scheduled.


I told you guys last time I was getting quotes for our mower. To be replaced, I got three quotes. One from whites farm equipment, one from ag Pro. And one from Edward tractor sales. NKRO came in the cheapest with the John Deere $11,242. But I have a concern with that one


since it’s a John Deere.


First of all, it’s green. No, it is a lot slower. The same, but it’s a lot slower. So the next the next price more I came in was through wind farm supply. And that is the SCAG mower, which is what we have now. And that was 12,003 75. These are all zero turn, either. Okay. And then Enver tractor sales was 12,007 40 What’s that? That’s a hustler.


What’s the warranty on those four years? Follow them?


Yeah. And this is with a bagger.


This is what the Bagger, but the one we’re trading in has a bagger. So it’s apples to apples for all three. I would recommend staying with SCAG. Since that’s what we have now. Yeah, we have two other ones currently. We didn’t have we had we had traded in this case seemed to be


working a little more proficient for us. The two G’s are when


that’s that’s what this this is the price with the training that is


with the training. It’s a $6,500 trading allowance.


So I’ll make a motion. When you’d like Bill and all you want is this bag of coins.


I think that would be the best bang for your buck for for the township.


I’ll make a motion where we discuss it. So I’ll make a motion that we we trade in our old Scout our old scam hustler mower for a new SCAG from whites farmers play for cost not to exceed $12,315.70 $5. And that includes a bagging unit, as well. For your warranty and a four year warranty. I’ll second that. We have a discussion on that. Are we all? Yeah, I’m good. Okay. When can he get that ended up coming tomorrow? See, it’s hopefully by April. Those things are getting better.


We had three funerals in the last week. And I don’t know that I said anything last night but I’ve sold three of the columbarium so far. Just waiting on the internet to get fixed before it all gets put on right on record on the record center. You have manual paperwork right now. Yes, yes. That’s pretty much where we’re at right now.


Good with a good result. I know we got tons of it. Not too long ago. We’ve been using much of it. I don’t think so. Because I’m not sure if you can put any down like prior to temperature starting low even though it’s raining and


we had two trucks go out the other morning when the temperature was right at freezing, it was raining. So we had two trucks go out. Okay. But we didn’t go fleet


Devon’s on board and all right, yes. Okay. And right. Reps. Who was it? Oh, John room. So John. Yeah, he’s, he’s, he’s one. Gone to part time.


He’s been asking. Yeah, he wasn’t. He was. He’s


coming back in the summertime once Yeah, definitely. So he’s gone officially right now.


Okay, so Okay. Our summer good. So that’s how’s that? Good. Good. stuff right now. Like like he didn’t? wasn’t gone. Right. skip a beat. Good. Good.


All right, challenge.


We get him, John Eskridge.


And he just passed away.


I haven’t gotten


cheaper on your next product, we’re gonna be a little quicker.


Okay. I’ll be out of town the next two days, finalizing stuff. Today, finalize the tanker specs and stuff on the Pennsylvania and take care of that. And then I just need to make sure that we cancel Audrey’s medical insurance today should be the last day of medical insurance and make sure that we don’t pay that premium. When we do that. And then landing content. I’m hoping he’s still having a pension taking out of his check. And he’s part time with us now. And that shouldn’t have


shouldn’t be happening. So cancel, why didn’t you


cancel the health care insurance and the pension with Audrey, then cancel Landon’s pension?


Questions. Bobby, wait,


are you the Batman? Batman?


Has anything worried about


the emails? And I don’t want to Joe probably knows more about that. And I do. He still has been talking to Joe. But the issue becomes Bobby needs a credit card to pay for that stuff. Everything’s


on hold. Okay, yeah. We need to get a credit. Right. And that’s fine. Yeah. Understood is yeah, it’s for that and lots of other others all computer stuff, really, with with subscriptions involved. So okay,


but I’m on Bobby. want those email? Yeah, what happened to me? Yeah, we all do. Yep.


Okay. Thank you. I have one more quick question. And that is when that went up the alleged shooter and the incident that we had and Rixton was talking about when he gets called in for that.


I’ll be clear, we do not respond to any incidents like this. We’re not trained in that bomb scares. We don’t go out on stage when a sheriff’s call us I assign a unit to that call, but they stay at the station. And it’s like that guy. He’s running all over the township. Now I put an ambulance in a driveway the guy runs right by not good.


You know what I wasn’t sure I wasn’t a question. I just wasn’t taught the procedure if you were notified, because I didn’t think we got notified as trustees on that. Not sure we should have known


as trustees. We do. But we do have fest for the guys


though. Right? We have Yes. Okay. Tiny ambulances and on the ladder truck. Yeah. Okay. We do you guys. And we just had a tabletop scenario with neato men and the sheriff’s office and State Patrol. And we’re just planning now to have a full scale this summer was Sam Todd teaching it again.


How old are those vests


just we just had I don’t know there’s a shelf life yeah, there. So we just purchase new shells or the new insulators. Yeah.


Okay. I know it’s probably getting about that


time. Yeah, no, it was you’re dead on So Sam we just bought those from Sam at the end of last year. We’re all pretty


that was pretty recently we did so yeah. Five


years. So five years ago. No, no, no, we


don’t say we just bought the insert inserts just what is it that degrades the inserts or the


inserts how do they degrade if they’re just sitting there


so the so the the actual test itself? Okay, no, you’re talking in the desert? Yeah, the thing that pretension or the walkers? Yeah. The metal plate. Yeah. Not the cafeteria. Well, I


don’t think they’re metal plates anymore, but it’s the plate. I could have seen the plate.


You don’t need to come. Regardless, you got it. Yeah, yeah, those


that makes it easy. And then I’m still working on Joe it asked me about the rail incident. So we are working on that. So on the


routes railway incident, yeah, okay. Like I’m thinking handrail, handrail, yeah.


Perfect. We’ll move on to zoning. Since that’s next, and I’ll make a motion to reopen the public hearing. For proposed amendments to zoning resolution 2022 dash zero 11 and 2022 dash zero 14 a second I guess. Right. First one is section 115 02. B as in Bravo definitions. This is a new definition. It’s called solid waste. And it reads items that are not used for their intended purpose and or repurposed now use yeah repurposed use, sorry. Yeah, I got stuck on the and or because indoors, not a good thing to be putting in legislation. So we’ve been told so I would just say we just call this or repurpose use in your org items? No, you can’t. Okay, now, we’ve been told in this in the past, it’s not good for us to have and slash or okay, it’s either and, or




So I’m thinking or would be exclusive and is inclusive. So you have to have both, you know, for intended purpose and repurpose or purpose or repurpose use you guys think? I think that’s all we can make it? Yeah, I was just saying that he had


no problems with this one. This majority


wishes of this amendment. The other ones but this has been this has been a common a common thing through through legal is not to use animals and slash ORs. That just leaves it to the to open so so when I think when I went through the Commission, we were like, well, we’ll leave it to trustees if they want to remove one or the other. So


why can’t be both right to campaign intended purpose in every purchase. So or Right, right.


Okay, so I’ll make a motion that we accept this new definition into the zoning resolution second, any questions from the public roll call please. Next one is zoning amendment 2022 dashes 014 section 350 dot 12 I India waste matter commercial districts in total that so this this throws into the into what waits matter is by throwing up but inserting an IRC section which is always good to reference that and then changing access to discarded so I’ll read this waste matter solid waste as defined in RCW section 3373 4.01 As amended. Data has been added including emptying empty packing crates and other discarded materials is used to read other excess materials. The debate was you know why excess discarded is better because it’s a waste shall not be allowed to accumulate a lot and shall be disposed of on a regular basis liquid wastes do not sorry liquid waste shall only be disposed of in appropriate containers and repeat and removed from the site on a regular basis. So we removed excess materials and made it discarded materials


that seems to be the thumbs up approval from tough deeds right?


Yeah. Yeah, this has gone through regional planning and our and our Yeah, anytime we can put an RC O RC reference in it’s always makes it stronger. So you made the motion. I will make a motion that we approve this this change to Section 350 12 I question from the right row please. Right. Next one is also part of the amendment 2022 dash O 14. This is Section 370 dot 10 I India waste matter industrial districts same thing. But for the industrial district versus a commercial district. So that’s a no brainer. So I will make a motion we accept the change of this section as well. So, questions or comments from the public? roll, please? Take emotional we close the public hearing. In a second. A second. All right. All right. Moving on to Jordan stuff. Do you know what you got for us?


This one clear on that definition? Did you modify the andorre? To make it or to make it? Okay, yeah.


All right. We got three permits since the last meetings. There was one back one solar panel permit and one demolition. Other than that, I just have the resolution on your table for violations.


I’m looking at this thing you gave us months ago. It says no discussion in this tonight. But this is what this is. I don’t even know if this is still. This is a court docket or some sort. It’s a payment.


Is it a bill from the corporate courts?


I think it might be the bill. Yeah. I think that’s been taken care of. Okay.


Can we just double check?


You know what I’m talking about? Do you need a case number anything or? This is with Judge Pittman.


Let’s see. Probably with


if there’s a number I’ll write it down.


Oh, this is Petra. Petra check. Us and Petra check. Your case number 2021. CV turn Victor 503.


Pretty sure that was covered but


it had to sit into my folder there. So all right. Sweeney has is a resolution authorizing civil prosecution. So this motion so do you have a number for this July 2023 Dash 42 0420422 things was moved by seconded by that the following resolution be adopted resolved. The Board hereby authorizes its legal counsel to take any and all necessary legal action to enforce the zoning resolution on property owner Jessica Marsac. For violation of sections. Three 10.0 to 310 dot 033 10.0. Remind Foxtrot 310 09 Hotel, three 390 dot 06 Quebec and six 10.01 and address 4295. Less 4295 marks Avenue parcel three, two dashes zero to eight dashes 10000 to six dash 000 In return Township, and be it further resolved that the Bartra township trustees find some terms at all, for much of this board concerning relating to the adoption of this resolution. We’re taking an open meeting of this board and then all deliberations of this board that resulted in those four watches were in a meeting open to the public in compliance with the law including section 121 22, the Ohio Revised Code. So I’ll make this motion.


I guess, questions before we go anywhere? And that is I didn’t see anywhere here what the reason is for this.


That’s the section of the section numbers, each one of those is a different violation. Can you give us just a quick overview is just like what? There are


five but here’s the thing, that section code says what the what the code is, but it doesn’t say how they violated that code. Right. So we I would think that you would need to put in here, what they did violating their code. So I mean, you know, the prosecutor gave this to us.


I gave it to him and he okayed it. So


I mean, this isn’t just new to to the property owner grave had there had their processes. Yeah, letters and


what is that? I think we still need to substantiate for the record what the issue is.


So there are unlicensed vehicles. There are people living in a camper. There is an outdoor woodburner and there are sheds without zoning permits.


Okay, perfect. I would actually add that to this list. I would I would have was made doing it. I would add that in there. As a matter of record why The reason is for them but I’m okay with it. The process per se not five but


prosecutor chimp chatter I feel much better


but I think Fred does very good point maybe we should mention what in these violations just you know, they know what when someone looks at this and 10 years will they know because something may change so


I’m okay if you could add that in there that little paragraph you just said and then we signed digitally can sign off on it if you know what I mean. And keep it moving, but I think it’s best always to put what the violation is not just the code that was violated Malinda to you too.


That we can work on it later. Just real quick you said jump motor vehicles. Yes. Is that code in there?


It’s one of one of the ones that are three 1009 One of those is for vehicles and one is for trailers for recreational vehicles. Okay. Totally wrong


you have copy this job


Okay, anybody else have anything for zoning?


I did print out that email for the open space but didn’t know if that was just an old business. Like it wasn’t necessarily for zoning might be for old business.


was talking about open spaces zoning ish. You have it? Yeah. I don’t have a copy. So


this is the one yes.






So I miss here, are we looking?


We’re talking about open space? Well, I


Yeah. So this would be something we would want to send back to the Zoning Commission and have them look at that to see with with his recommendations to see what they come up with.


Because we don’t want to like you saying we don’t want to abandon the idea of that. But we do need to modify.


This, there’s a lot this is what I was saying there’s a lot to the process and think about non So


honestly, me, personally, I think I would like to hear like some of what the Zoning Commission would have to say on that.


Well, part of the problem a problem with it with this open space is if if you don’t have a homeowner association, we’re in no man’s land, no one owns it. Someone’s trying to own it, but they can’t because they can’t do anything with it. And then there’s there were also deed restrictions, perhaps which I don’t know if that was something, I think we were looking at that some of them were we’re gonna look at that or it’s kind of hard because you’d have to go to each development where there’s open space, but


so what what Chad was saying open space should transfer to the township. So it’s not sitting in no man’s land. I don’t know how we would go about doing that. And I don’t know if the Zoning Commission would have any authority on that either. But


so just going with that, you know, and I’m looking at like, Kelly, the marshy land. A lot of that open space goes like between people’s houses. You know,


that’s I don’t think it’s the same open space, you’re talking about maybe undeveloped space. It’s not that this is what the development puts in and says we’re going to put these houses, but we need to have the relevant percentage of that has to be open for the use of frolicking in the grass and some retention ponds. A good example of marsh Creek, there’s a maybe an acre size pond. There’s three of them. Yeah. And so those are the open space that they have to provide open space when they make the development. But the but they’re supposed to have a homeowner’s association that takes control of that property and maintains it. With the with the fee the dues and stuff and the fees so the marsh creek that you’re up like a Jennifer and Kelly, those are those are just open that no one’s bought those. Some of them summer. Some of them are some parcels. Yeah, but I don’t think he that’s what we’re talking about though or you’re just talking about warehouses. No one’s build a house


on it. My understanding is the guy’s trying to sell them and somebody’s looking Oh, okay, so we’re trying to same thing. And then we’re kind of like it becomes a trustee issue if he sells it to a private person, or it becomes a trustee issue if the trustee is taken over and a trustee say hey, well, yeah, it’s public land. Alright, if you want to walk on public land, go ahead. Well, now you got people looking back there. I mean, it just breaks my and that’s what


we need to figure is. Me personally, I, you know, if we take control of it, I would say we could, there’s options, one option is, which maybe isn’t the best option, give it to the next next door landowner than they’d have to survey their land getting replotted. And all that, or we or we say, to help pay for that, or what, for us for our administrative costs, charge them with a certain amount of money for this land. If you want it as part of your property. We’ll do like we give it to someone like a road, just you vacate the property be more or less so. And I’ve talked about that. And they there’s things that’s good with that. But then there’s also things that creates headaches for zoning? Well, yeah. Because if if we submit that or offer that and the homeowner purchases it, it’s out of our hands, it’s theirs. Now they pay the taxes, they get to do all that stuff. They can put fences on it, they can do what they want with this can’t put filters on No, no, it’s vacated. And when we sell it to him, I don’t think we should give it to him. Because then it’s going to be in you know,


here’s my only concern. A lot of those land spaces. Most of the roads drain to those retention ponds. Yeah. Right. If you were to give that to the homeowner, to keep up on


the roads or back the retention pond is a different story. But no one’s gonna fill that in and build a property or anything on right. But


another thing is, I mean, Mo and all these down, right. I don’t


want to daughter, right, why score, depending on the year was built? I mean, like


21? It depends on the year with Bill, anything? 2001? I’m sorry? Yeah. Prior to 2006?


Yeah, is different because


that Marsh Landing should be covered by them. That’s close. I thought it was a 92. No, it’s so seeing after


92. They


were they were drawn after that. So So with that, I just think there’s a lot. There’s a lot of moving parts on this. And I mean, I my thought is, though, Michelle, let them really hammer it out and fix whatever broke. In that is well, I mean, you’re not for that


you will Well, I’m just not sure that that that is going to be their decision to make, they could kick it around and all but I still don’t know. If it’s ultimately going to come back to us and say, Well, what do you guys want to do with it? You know, I mean, is that


wouldn’t He give us options, though? Listen, this is our recommened did we


discuss this at all? I thought we touched on this in the last meeting. It wasn’t a full discussion.


I mean, just seems like it’s a bigger issue than just Oh, yeah,


it is.


Yeah. And every development and every place for him different issues,


especially Yeah, like, like stone Stone Ridge. They which is what he mentioned is in this email about you know, when you’ve got railroads, you got the height, the transmission lines, if you can’t build under it, it’s almost useless property. There are people who would like to buy that. I know that I know, Stan, Dan Miller would like to buy that piece of property. But that’s something we have to look at the deed restriction and see what the deed restriction says. But they don’t have an HOA See, we’re just this is one thing. It’s a big debate.


I think those don’t wait for when we get to some issue with that a long time ago. I


forget we tried to sell it and if they said we couldn’t I forget why because it it because of the deed restriction.


We ever looked. I think somebody told us there. Well, no, we


had it. We we had it was brought in it was brought to us at a meeting and it was like you can it was an attorney or something. Actually, I can’t remember who it was.


sold it to daddy lesson, right? We had a couple people


get who wanted to get on and we


told them. Yes, yeah. So here’s seems like to me, like it’s not going away. If we have another developer which we got 60 Some 160 acres down on. Right. You know, to me, that’s just something that we need to try to see if we can fix it, learning from our mistakes in the back.


And I also one of the things I think that it wasn’t included in here was forcing a PRD you know, planned residential development to have an HOA and I think he said we can’t we can’t require that does that sound right to you? I thought Chad had said something about, well, that’s something you really can’t make them have an HOA to put in there. If somebody sells on the land and then they bring they bring their plan to the Zoning Commission, I don’t think we could say oh no, you don’t have HOA


I don’t remember you might have been where we can’t an existing development we can’t force them to No, we can’t existing for sure. I don’t remember for a new, we’re gonna


get so many voters per that. In a particular area, if there’s no h h a way to a great, I think that may have been one gymnast up a Stone Ridge, like there’s open space around my place some it’s landlocked, which will make very difficult. And we will have an inch away. But I think if we had so many people within that section, even though there’s no age away, agreeing to it, you can do it. We’re going back so many years, they


don’t yeah, the end run on the HOA the rich come and start to come back from Trinidad out was that we can do an assessment on the properties. Instead of that if they don’t have an HOA if they want to build a PRD and they don’t have an HOA we assess their property for the roads and everything else. So we don’t have the old wintergreen phase 28 that was going on down there. And all the the curbs and gutters are all getting torn up. Every house would be assessed to maintain those roads. And in all of this other crap that goes on there after after they start developing. If there’s no Hoa, there’s no need to go to. What if we started assessing them? The people live their pay that make us payments, like it’s like a levee, you know, whatever. But then the new homeowners know that going into buying that property is going to be disclosed to them that okay, you’re going to be assessed, it’s going to cost you whatever, blah, blah, blah, but you’re also getting assessed for maintaining the roads and would have use other things. So we don’t get stuck holding the bag, replacing the roads because they were put in incorrectly or substandard.


I have one follow up question. We’ll take some salary. I was looking at this and maybe I misunderstood or maybe I know it’s wrong. But I think what’s public property doesn’t give somebody the right to walk on that property, they would be trespassing. Regardless, right? Nobody has a right to walk into any public property just because it’s public property. Right doing so. There being Christmas, we don’t have to. There’s no natural right for somebody to walk on property.


So are you saying that we can’t have people walk in a park without permission? No, because that’s not a good property?


No, there were granted them permission. Correct. But if we didn’t grant them permission by saying open and such such times, they will be trespassing in our property, nobody has a right to go into, to walk out into into our road place or walk into this town hall that is giving them permission. So there’s no public right? To walk anything that’s are owned by the township, don’t want to put up signs down, it’s great to have no Principessa signs up there. But that’s not a given right to anybody.


Okay, I’ll, I’ll take your character, and still does not fix our issues.


No, I will say algebraic Charles on the same page with you know, we still gotta get past that just looking sort of


like what he said here in a second paragraph, I think open space should transfer to a township, then we can do what we want to do with it, we can decide if we want to, you know, if it’s if it’s no value to us as a park or whatever, which we already know, most things, we don’t need little slivers of land that we have to maintain if it’s not now the corner here with you know, we’re that we just got from ODOT. That’s different, because we can use that for township purposes, but a little sliver land back into development is not going to do us a whole lot of good. So where’s the value for that to the township? Or we have to maintain it and and watch it, you know, and follow it and all that sort of stuff.


Whatever you guys want to do. I


mean, I think a commission could look at it more, maybe they have some good recommendations. I think it was a good idea. I just by right, it’s probably a political decision, because we may or may not want every open space out there. So I don’t think it’s be a child. I don’t think we can get it without being transferred to


it. You know what I would like to see, I would like to see every open space that we have that is in limbo with the deed restriction. Yeah, with it, you know that right? You can look at everything and say, Hey, this has an intersection. This does not have that means you don’t


like Dave, like the the open space plan. My house is still in the name of Phil, like building build, build, right? So that’s half the problem. We could go to a tile person. But that open space sometimes isn’t the name of the builder,


right? But the problem that we’re having is the builders are no longer builders anymore. They’ve either gone under they’ve shut down, they’ve gone bankrupt or whatever. They’re not in existence. That’s what’s going on.


I’m just saying that for us to do with titles March.


I don’t want to do the title. So I mean, deed restriction should be at the records office,


if we know which properties they want to do


see, Stone Ridge, if we didn’t accept that open space, then that would still be on wished. I think he’s a developer there because that’s still that business is still going on. So he would have to be maintaining that. But since we accepted that for only his you know, it’s, it’s off, and


it probably won’t be that difficult to look around. The last several developments that went


on we properties we’re talking less than 10. We’re doing E.


Or if you add stone


region, that’s nine. Yeah, add that into nine.


Are you talking about the ones here but my house? No. Those are open space as


well. I mean, if you want to if you want to leave every development, I’m just talking about the ones that are in limbo right now. Yeah, because


you’re still has delicate still active


families down in Carolina. Try to pay the taxes on it. Yeah.


Which is okay. But I’m saying as long as as long as a corporation or whatever is responsible for taking care of it and I’ll


add live Oh, yeah, nine nine in limbo. We get the parcel word, you know, where it’s at? The any deed restrictions on it. I mean, if there’s a deed restriction on it, we got to follow the deed restriction. Maybe some of these don’t even have deed restrictions.


They might not Yeah, you know, that we can do other stuff. They were just I think a lot of it happened, especially in the marsh Creek area, where the developers just kind of disintegrated, and they still had these open spaces. And now, whoever took it was trying to sell them off. He’s trying to get out from under it so that some other dude comes in and buys this thing. And I’ve got all these little things. And he realizes I can’t do anything with it. Because


so so I mean, I like that getting that information. But I mean, again, that first sentence, I do not, I would not abandon the open space concept, but it does need to be modified. So that’s what’s currently in our zoning right now is that that concept and what we have in there, and it needs to be modified, that’s where I say it needs to be well back to them. Well, the open


space concept is that the developer still needs to have 20%, whatever the number is, it’s some percentage of the developed space that they’re developing to be open space. But I think that the modification needs to be that, that it has to be put under an HOA or some they have I don’t, and that’s, that’s what we’re stuck to. Because I think he also said, You can’t force an HOA,


however, often the space is now usable, right under high tension wires. So my problem Well, that’s all I’m saying is that it doesn’t use guidelines or rules that we can put in our book, that when they go to a development that hey, you know what, we’re not going to run into this problem again.


Well, there was talk about, let’s just get rid of the PRD from our zoning altogether. So we don’t have any thinking that you know, that could stop. Developers from coming in? Turns out we can’t do that. So


are you against sending it back to the commission?


No, I’m not. No, no, but but I’m glad Rogers here inherited this, because there’s a lot that we need to kind of kick around ourselves a bit and get to get to see if there’s a deed restrictions and making. There’s only so


much more than it was unexpected here. I mean, yeah, one one issue is nine. Yeah, and you’re already done. The other issue is what


no man’s land future, and they’re in no man’s land. So that’s what Chad was, I think Chad was was kind of more pushing or more that the township, take it over. And then we can do what we want. Because right now, I don’t know if we can just take it. If it’s sitting there, you can’t just take it, no one’s controlling it. You know,


they have to give it to us. We have to they have to do.


Who’s they? They are no longer around. And


we can actually develop


these in question. There’s someone in charge of them and wanting to transfer the parcels and making a list of who can they contact? Who would want to accept them? And they just want to know, should we put the township on that list? And that is a township entity that we should consider transferring to


and would you be interested because of a transfer status, then we can we can decide what we want to do with it.


But in the meantime, we can figure out what restrictions we have before. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So yeah, that’s more


and I should follow up that I didn’t talk to the land bank. They would be interested in helping if they can ultimately they would do the same thing as the township probably would where they would just find it, they would not keep it permanently, they would just find an appropriate long term owner.


Right. See the the one instance I’m thinking is you have a property owner has his property and is a little sliver. Howard rigged, that is where he can’t. You couldn’t do anything with it if he owned it as it stands right now because it’s under this open sofa We somehow can get that off and then offer that to a homeowner. Now he expands his property, he could do what he wants, he maintains it blah, blah, blah. So that’s kind of a good if we could go that way it’s gonna be more of it’s not going to be it may not be all encompassing on these properties parcels that may be under one to one on one basis.


You know, definitely like back on Jennifer, you go back what the third call a sec back where you got just tissues in their backyard. They got that hill that gives up. Yeah. Okay, we take it over. Now all of a sudden, we gonna start getting all the neighbors upset because we’re not mowing.


Right. All right. And again,


we can just say, well, we’re not well, but this


would be the seat in my good example. To me, I would say, Well, if we have that we don’t want to maintain it. Let’s offer to the to those people and say, Do you want to purchase this? Now? It’s yours. You can keep the woods, you can cut down, you maintain it. Get us out of


the proceeds for good.


Let’s Yes. So this point, at this point, well, yeah, so let’s figure out what has deed restrictions.


And so let’s that’s also bring us up to the Zoning Commission to just as you know, one more thing that’s wrong with ladder.


You know what I don’t? Yeah, because I don’t know, look at this originally, what was the route we put on that time today? I can talk to you about later. But what is the rationale why they had the open space in the first place? And by them giving it to us, and we taken it away? And what was the purpose for the open space in the first place? Back to my question, was it required? Why was the required by statute zoning, by zoning?


I think it was a denote the percentages? 25% 20%? Something like that there’s a percentage zoning district. Yeah.


So we you know why, just to take pieces of this, that we’re probably still obligated to keep it within that same reason for that same benefit. But I’m checking this update later this week on that, because I’m curious more know more about that. So we can move on, Joe? That’s just my personal interest. Oh, I don’t want to question because I got a call on this one. What’s going on the status? I haven’t done to Elin road. I had the tuition one that Joe kept bringing up the ramp, and the other one being the coils and then the other one being the dumpster fire. Yeah. And the fencing around that.


Goya’s is sort of on hold, eat, he did buy the other parcels, and he’s combining them together so that it’s all in one parcel, which is in the works. He’s getting a survey now. So just waiting for that to get signed off and recorded. h&h dumpster, they got their fence permit, like every one they have a year to until their permit expires. So


what the regardless of whether so the product requires How long would they have to put the fence in one year one year, but we do we mandate that they get it done within that year, was that this would have been the fact that’s just part of the fence permit? Exactly. So what was what’s our mandate? That fence done? One year?


I thought we gave them did we did we give them a deadline that they had to get it done? I thought it had to be done by April 1 or something like that. Not that I recall. Because I know you, you you and Mark had a meeting with the guy and kind of hashing things out and he was saying okay, because it because of his personal stuff he was trying to he was expecting a grant that didn’t that fell through. So now, now we’re moving forward. That’s what this long delay was. Maybe it was a you know, trying to get down. But I mean, but there


is a grant for four to six, six, and it’s anywhere in the fourth to sixth sixth, and it goes right up to that property real close. And then it changes over to the 44272. So yeah, that’s what they were going after. And, you know, the state would not give it totally because we’re just outside. Right.


So are they in violation of any of our codes right now?


Yeah, technically, yes. But they have they least have the permits that they need to correct those things. It’s just whether they do it in the timeframe or not. So we need


to give them a deadline. Yeah, we can’t. I mean, the permit could run out. They decided then right, we’ll just get another permit,


and then another permit and another permit. And five years down the road. Nothing’s changed. I thought there was a deadline with that. I thought that, that that there was a deadline that they paved, or surfer, you know, whatever the surface they need for their parking to drive. It’s


all included. So with the fence permit and everything it was all, all of those improvements that they needed to do was one year.


Okay. I mean, I don’t if they have a permit, it’s a permit. And that’s what we do for everybody. So I made a


difference. And we can mostly permit to build a deck. They kept they may or may not accomplish that tack the problem,


then we don’t have to renew we don’t have to give into it. I mean, you don’t get it done in a time that we said in a year or whatever. We’re gonna get the next one.


Did we tell them what did we tell them? had a had to be done by I guess it’s a question. I’ve just, we didn’t.


That’s what he’s saying I don’t think there is, but


it’s on their permit for when


they have the permit, they have this permit to put the fence up within a year of the date of submitting the permit. But if they decide not to do it, they’re still in violation not having a fence and not having the surface, you know, the asphalt.


So here, then you go after, yes, yes, but that, but


this has already been two years, because when the first guy built the place, it should have been done then and it never got done. And then somebody else bought it, and somebody else bought it. And now it’s just getting the CANS getting kicked down the road, to him


a permit to do something, it’s not telling them that they have to do it. That’s just saying, they will never admit that


he would think they want a


permit. Authorization to put the fence at our standards. But it’s not saying it’s not saying that. Yeah, they have to pay for it.


Yeah, I think there would be a reasonable amount of time for them to accomplish this. I’m not gonna jump on it. Now.


I’m gonna say if we don’t like the fact that we’re giving them a year, then we need to go to work permitting and say, hey, you’ve only got 30 days to put it up. It’s all on the same


issue. Somebody may have a reason. Somebody’s got to


say no, no, yeah, yeah, this is a separate. These guys have been violation for a long time. Well, it hasn’t been the same guy. So you gotta that’s that’s the problem.


Confused? I mean, now they finally got it. They got the permit. Now the clock is ticking.


The clock is ticking for the permit just for them not to get


your one day he starts putting his hands up that he’s in violation.


All right, let’s, let’s take it to court, right. Let’s say hey, we’re gonna we’re gonna find you. And the guy says, okay, he goes to court. He says, Your Honor, I’ve got the permit my hand, it gives me a year, we’ve got nowhere to stand to do


that permit is just,


which is why is asking about the deadline. Then if you had the deadline, you have to have this up by June 1. Then they come in in February 1 and say, Okay, we need a permit to put the fence up and do this. Okay, great. Now you have the permit, but you still you still have to do first to put it in? And that’s what I thought we had, but we don’t we don’t. There’s no deadlines to any a permit. Now I’m gonna talk about the permit. I’m talking about to get the company to get it in compliance with our zoning for anything to do. Yeah, there is. There’s when a building goes up, if you want to put if you have one house up which shirt was Sherco, they had, they had to put the fence up to cover their cover. They’re two different things, though. This is the same kind of fence to cover their trash or their stuff.


You’re right. But it took them how long to do the front landscaping?


Who Sherco Yes,


you got the same issue all the way around. Instead of a fence you go. But if you want to change that, then you’d have to change the book to say, and all the permits the say, and everything to say,


I don’t think this is just a permit issue. This is a violation issue that’s been going on. And now as soon as we come to him and say, hey, you know, you need to have the same hair, then they sell it, then he goes next day, hey, you need to have this in there. And then they sell it so so somewhere, there’s no deadline.


I’m not too sure.


I don’t even I don’t think it’d be that difficult to do.


I just think we need to set a deadline. And I thought when you guys talk to him because because you know, this is brought up by number of people what’s going on. And then we found out the guy was waiting for the grant and all this stuff. And I thought at that time, you guys had said, Okay, did that in this needs to be taken care of not just this spring, you know, or by the summer or whatever. I thought there was a time but


I mean, because there’s variables there


to hold on.


To wet because,


you know, there’s all kinds of Right, right? I


just, I mean, I Yeah. To me, it’s just it is a house, you know, that’s why you give them it’s not a house. I’m just saying whether it’s vegetation, whether it’s a frontage, whatever it


can potentially put for me, you come in I’m going to put a business on this property. What do I have to do? You have to give us plans you have to do this. If you’re going to have this you need a fence you have to have you can’t have a gravel parking lot. You can have gravel for storage, outside source stuff, but your parking lot coming down off the road has to be concreted or asphalt it’s got to be something like that or so when the guy built that built the building he never finished that that this is where I’m talking about is a problem where there’s no deadline to finish completion of this building. So business


I understand that but what am I gonna you know, so you start the process when you get your permit your processes starting at that point, right now I’m coming into compliance. The clock is ticking. No you


don’t start the process. We need to commit the process and start getting for you got the permit right the permits just You took the time to apply for the permit


processes. Yeah, the time starts when you start building your building. Hey, you know, you’re building your building. And however, I mean, I don’t know if there’s ever a deadline on how long it takes you to build the process a year


when he when they gave them a violation. So when


they the process started when they met with them, and then they went over everything. And then they said, Okay, this is not going through. At that point. You’re on the clock. Right. And he did. So I don’t think there was a deadline. I guess I don’t understand why it’s an issue right now, when we finally are starting to get somewhere.


Well, there’s a deadline on it, because it could go from the time of violation, then when they file for the permit, they could say, well, because this has been on violation, you’ve got 30 days to put this up, right? I mean, you might be able to get right with that.


That’s kind of what I’m saying is coming coming today to get a permit for another year. That permit is only good for a year that means you can only put that fence up between that time Yeah, that does not That’s not saying you have


to have to get the fence but I think we have to be consistent all the way around just like the guy who likes consistent just like the guy on saving like road that we allowed him to completely gut the house and do everything listen, you gotta get all your permits you you got to do X y&z We didn’t say, Hey, you have to have your house rebuilt within 30 days. I mean, listen, get your permits. That’s what we were talking right.


permits to do the job. Correct. Those permits are good for one year, one year. So if his house isn’t built in one year, he’s gonna come back for the permit my Minecraft in that


you have to give it to him? No, I mean, everything.


No, we do have to give it to him. Because where we can say close your business stuff that will close your house around that will never go over. So we’re really does is that we’re waiting a year later to start this process. So better to start it up front when they came in for the grant work saying that we can give you a permit now that falls through you’re still required to get this done.


I thought to me, I think it’s a moot point because we finally are moving on it. And now we’re bringing it up.


You know, it’s yes, hopefully this


around two months, I


mean, now we’re gonna bring it up,


I enter for the permit. Yeah,


I mean, for to have the fences, though. We’re already two months,


I think all of us want it to be done. As far as being reasonable.


100%, I


ran the rapids throughout the years of everybody holding up. That’s the problem. Yeah. And now we’re taking it out on the new owner. Owner has gotten violations. But the sill, the biggest thing is, is there’s violations on every property.


That’s when we’ll deal with the problem that’s in front of us people’s properties, because we do try to be consistent, and we do try to be reasonable.


So to me, part of the issue is the guy who initially built the building. didn’t finish it, he died. Now my problem, it didn’t get finished. Okay, so So when it doesn’t get finished, now the new guy comes in. Who’s alive and well? Alright, the time was, but who’s telling him you need to have this this and that done? Are we we done that when it changed ownerships? Is there any mechanism that we have, I’ll go into a new person comes in, Hey, you gotta get this done. That’s why I kept harping on this over the years. Like, what the hell’s going on with this property? Well, it’s a new guy, new owner. Okay, well, that new owner needs to know, you need to get this finished, you know, buyer, beware kind of thing, you know. So now, that person who knows what happened to him, he sold it to somebody else. Now, the third guy or the fourth guy, these guys might not know that I have to do all these things. So it’s incumbent on us to say you guys have to finish this, you know, but you’re right. Let’s not dump it all on this guy. But this guy has known this for a number of months, if not years, because he was waiting for the grant to do this stuff. So he knows he has to have it completed.


But but the one deadline, and I will say he didn’t turn his back on us and look the other way. He actually was working with zoning and meeting with the numbers, click on that point there. If he wasn’t talking, he did turn his back. Now we got


a different story. Now we have violations and all that. And I think that was generating the violation. I think when we sent him a letter, that’s when it got the conversation going. Am I correct? Yes. Okay.


All I’m saying I agree with yet, for the most part, except for I don’t want to wait for a year for us to tell him that you know what it is his job to get it done, you know, for like six months from now, target. If it’s not done, we should send him another letter that we know that the permit was good for a year. But this is still a requirement that it has to be done.


If you want to give her we’d go along with the violation letter. What is the schedule of a violation letter? If you send it out and you got 30 days to respond, that those were just sandwiches have fun by just getting.


So this just property in particular t got a courtesy letter, the new the current owner, correct. And did that get response? Or did you guys have to send a violation after that? Well, I believe he was I don’t want to give a wrong answer, because I don’t remember. Yeah, I don’t either. It probably did get


a response, but not nonregulated plan or anything that we needed. I know, we sent a violation out, and then that got a response to


Okay. So at that point, the violation letter and a conversation should have been you have told it my my point of view anyway, you have this much time to get to you have to this date, because we’ve done this before with others, you got to date and picture fence or whatever the case was in the past. So I got just time to


go with that if you got a violation letter. Okay. You got 60 days to if once we send a letter that I would get, but yeah, if we don’t have that, and we didn’t do that, but I don’t think we’d go.


But then have the issue with that. That’s why you set that date because I can’t get asphalt in the middle of the winter, you know, so okay, fine, but they’ll open in April, ish, maybe, whatever, May, Asscher whatever. So you have till June to get it done. You had almost this whole fall to plan it and do whatever


just said, if I’m okay to disagree, six months, we’ll have to give a reason why I’m fine. Now, just because he is acting like he’s trying to comply. Maybe I’d say 180 days from now, send him a letter saying, You know what, just a reminder, this was the letter was sent out, and that the promos could for a year, then we’re hoping that this gets done within that amount of time, something like that. figured out the language few months from now, but I


personally am the opposite. We’ve already dealt with.


So don’t do anything for you


did well, at this point. We’ve already told him what he has to do. He’s pulled us permits. If we would have done that beforehand. I would I would have probably stood behind him more. But I don’t want to go after the fact that do it now.


Six months from now it’s reasonable time. What we should use for an item doesn’t fit the full year hopefully gets it done within


my permits good for a year. I’m gonna have to do Oh, I got my permit. In February. Well, shoot, I can’t do it between November and February. So now I had to do it. I have to wait till next year to do it. You know, just this whole.


That’s my baby dragon. So, I mean, I’m good for however you guys want to do it. But it’s just something that’s dragon.


And it’s


I don’t disagree, but I think we needed to be on front of it not coming behind. Yeah.


That say we’re I’m just saying it wouldn’t be a good idea to send out a nice little notice somewhere for them to get done with and we can discuss that down the road. He doesn’t get it done.


Okay. Where were we in all this?


I just wanted to have people report. Yes. That was so I’ll give a status. Jordan wasn’t done


yet. Yeah, I’m done. Done now. Sorry. I didn’t get enough notes there. Anything more? No, no? Okay. All right. Let’s move on to citizens comments from citizens comments is to allow allow citizens to present information to raise an issue regarding items not on the agenda regarding agenda items that do not include a public hearing a time limit of three minutes per citizen shall apply. Please state your name and address for the record. Certain front. Anything. Okay.


Yeah, I have some Roger perfectly 6900. I have to ask you three trustees. What? And one at a time, what is your feelings on? I’ll just call them allotments in the township, new ones.


developments? Yes.


What do you mean by that? Like


a PRD? Right. I mean, it’s just


simple questions. So now it’s more like Alright, next. Do we want more? Or do we not? We want more more


developments coming in? Yes.


I’ll go I think they have to be done smartly. I don’t want


I mean, I’m not against against them. But I don’t want something just thrown in there. Either. i It needs to be well thought out. It needs to follow the guidelines, it needs to follow our guidelines, you know, with with heavier duty roads needs to be sidewalk needs to be it needs to be a nice development.


And how would that happen? Because none of that’s


been talked about, right? You know what


I can I’ll be honest with you. That would be something that I would like to see on our book if you’re going to do this. And again, I mean, even like a Even wintergreen not not a terrible development, there’s a lot of good things in there. But like the road, we had a standard, it needs to be held to our standard, not anybody else’s standard. It needs to be sidewalks, it needs to have all that stuff.


Okay, do you have that standard piggy bank and


the piggy bank just


saying the road standard is through the county? I believe not ours. We the counties we’re looking at that, I believe is the only we have the county subdivision regs that, that developments have to comply with, as well as our own. For for despite all of that. I don’t have a problem with developments. But I still and I’ve said this for years, I’m a firm believer on that 7525 75% resident 25% business and we can maintain our township finances. So we’re not getting all residents, because the tax base from residential properties isn’t going to supply us with enough taxes to provide what we need to in a township where businesses have different tax, a higher tax base, we get more money from that. So


Renee are Yay,


I’m I’m gonna yes or no. When I’m not for just if it becomes everywhere. Well, all we’re doing is putting in developments. But businesses are coming in because it’s going to I want to keep that balance.


For that. Let me give your give your


I mean, I guess we have a land use plan. Right? Yeah. When that land is played is based on those percentages that you brought up, let’s say change recently with more commercial coming in. Because we need more tax base. I think we should work out for land use plan that was put in place by our residents. That should be your starting point. If somebody saw no time for his thing again. No actually sounds like Yes, three years. Oh, okay. That’s what everybody says. There’s a reason we have these plans. We spent about $10,000 on these. So


when was the last plane? You did? Yeah. Last time, I have, like six


or against them?


I am for them within our land use plan. Now somebody wants the violin up. That’s a farm. What did what did they decide for that? Now, sometimes things happen. They


want to keep it rural. That’s what’s in the Landry’s plan. And that’s what’s got me asking this question, because we have lots of land that has been rural and farmed. That is going up for sale. Right now we


have a land use plan that’s good for a year to two years, probably


you guys better hold on because stuffs coming unless there’s a way that we can put in that we can stop.


If it’s you know, in my opinion is


as the spot that I’m in? I’m asking the questions because I’m trying to push to stop it. Because more housing doesn’t help us at all. At all, the right does the right houses forced the critters into my barns. Right housing, dogs, no, no housing, when you’ve got open land, and the critters can live out there. That’s where we want to leave them. We keep putting more houses up. And we keep going in farther and farther. And then you guys I’m sitting here for I don’t know how many years, you guys have complained about. You just did it tonight. Open Spaces that you’re getting, you got to complain about roads, you got to fix you got to there, it’ll never go your way. I just don’t believe it.


It will never go. There’s also the point that we if somebody wants it. And I’ve already approached this, you know, we’ve talked to our legal counsel on that about, can we stop them? Can we put a moratorium, but you really can’t because if somebody wants to sell that property to somebody who wants to buy that with stipulations in the book that makes it really hard. Absolutely. And that’s what I’m after. Absolutely. And a little bit, which is what I was saying is because I don’t want to waste the which as I was suggesting is if a PRD comes in, they have to have an HOA set AND, OR, AND or Well, you said he said you can’t force them. Well, we can do assessments. So if you want to do that you want to put it in there, you’re paying for your own I


just feel like the same as what I was saying to you. When you said these things that you would expect. Those things are not written down anywhere. You say the county’s taking care. Obviously,


I’ll say this, I think and I have an argument I think when when we approve something through our Zoning Commission and the whole plan, I would say that, that if anything gets deviated from that plan past us and it does not go back before For us, I think we have a good fight in court. Because we approved a plan based on the information you gave us now, just because you went to the next level up, and then they said you don’t need to do that they should not be able to. To exemple, we did.


And I think that that problem has been, I think so many, I think with with us, and, and and regional in the county and everything and the building department that they are not just because that was that that was part of the issue. wintergreen you know, we just said they had one plan, and then they changed it because somebody in the county said, yeah, you can go ahead and do that. And no one referred it back to us. So I think that that problem has gone now, do you?


Would you agree to that? Or do you would you I don’t notice, because we haven’t had any? We


haven’t had any we haven’t had that yet. But we did. We did highlight. We found it, we highlighted it.


And then now with a new subdivision regs, that that approaches that concept to so you’re throwing


a couple of things that I can say, for a what I said before forcing critters off of open land that stay where they need to stay instead of in my barn. Also, that stops from this overpopulating everything, I guess is what I’m saying and creating more problems and more work for our road. All it’s doing is costing us more


money. Alright, can I be Roger carpenter for a second? Go ahead. It’s my land, I can do what I want to do with it.


I understand. And that’s exactly. But when you’re selling it.


Listen, it’s my land, I ought to be able to do what I want to do


I 100% As long as no, you don’t, you’re not


long, as long as it follows the guidelines.


I don’t agree with is that when it’s infringing on everybody else in the township, and that’s exactly what I’m pushing.


You’re talking about the farmland so the deer and the coyotes have nowhere to go. Now you got that? Right. No.


That’s, that’s in the eye of the beholder. You know that more than anybody when you infringe on somebody else’s, right, because I’m looking over here, and I’m seeing chickens and I live in a development. You’re infringing on my right. It’s the


they were looking at him before. And I buy and look, it’s the same as the guy on the road buying going to look at trailers.


I get it. But I mean, it’s the eye of the beholder at the end, I


understand what you’re saying. So I mean, my point is, if we can put stringent in, it’s no different what we did with a hotel. If we don’t want right, the hotels down here, right stringent and it up a little bit. Right. And it keeps a little bit of the riffraff out. And I don’t want I want to be


if we’re going to do it, I want to do it. Yeah, I don’t want


I mean, if the guy wants to come in and make it like a mini little something that’s the ritziest place around, I guess we’re not gonna be able to stop it.


I mean, like, like, there’s two off the top of my head.


I honestly ritzy doesn’t make it better. Doing it, right, put more money into it that way, half


million dollar homes is gonna make us money to get it to most of the land, but not all of it was the sewer. What is that


new? You know, what’s that threshold where it’s actually beneficial to the township versus costing the township services as well. And 75 total? Unless


we build a heck of a lot of business up here. I don’t think the subway and the pizza shops gonna do it.


Well, here. Here’s the reality is 7525. It’s not businesses. It’s it’s profitable businesses, not not. Right. So I mean, obviously, nonprofit low. So beyond that, something else has to take the place to help offset that. And it’s not it’s not $50,000 homes.


Well, what if we turn it in rezone it and turn it into commercial then that don’t help buy it


when we touch on that, but we also need to be able to provide reasonable housing to people can only afford a $50,000 home, not everybody can afford a 500,000 in the township. Alright. And I don’t mean, I don’t mean, I don’t mean. apartments that that are perhaps, I mean, we’ve already kind of cut down on duplexes.


That’s our response. That’s the builders responsibility on where he builds, that’s not up to us. It’s up to us to designate areas. Well, it could be


we could put a restriction if you’re going to do this, then you have to do that. It’s a quid pro quo type thing, right? If you want to build if you want to build 50 $500,000 homes, then you also need to provide 10% of that as affordable housing and


see where he goes with it too. But it still does. Thanks


for my three minutes.


Hey, I got it. I had Keystone for three minutes. Okay, do you have anything else?


So so that I just want to say this? So am I spinning my wheels? By trying to push something No. Okay, I’m still


listening. I want to hear the rest of your statement. Well, you’re just getting set my three minutes as well. Yeah, I told you that 12 minutes


I think we do need to tighten up our book. Like, and he used a good example of the hotels, we tighten that up. So what they’re not just gonna throw into a red, they’re


fine with that. That’s your question. Yeah.


make it harder for some big drama to come.


They’re gonna come in, we’re not going to have a bill out there replacing roads and catch basins. And we’re gonna do it. Right.


And that’s, that’s all I’m asking. Just do it right from the get go. So we’re not going out. And I have to


agree with what you said. Why not have some kind of standards where they have to build for the rich and for the poor? I mean, it’s ridiculous. I know. Everybody says, well, we want just, you know, no, we know, not just poor, but you know, elderly, because you want me to tell you what it is. I’ll just say it in one term, Facebook. Okay, I’m done. I’ve moved on.


To the earlier fence situation, the disclosure, each time that property was sold, the disclosure agreement should have had the violation information in it, which means it would be enforceable. There is a juxtaposition in what you discussed, about not providing a additional permit, or an extension. If you don’t do that, then you tend you’re likely to lose in court, because you turned them down, they’re gonna go and say, if you tried to prosecute, they’re gonna go and say, I tried to get apartment they wouldn’t give me or if, in fact, you tried to enforce the violation and an earlier date than when the permit expires, they’re gonna walk into court and say I have a permit, and the court is likely going to leave. And so you’re in a catch 22? Well, I


don’t think we’re in privity of contract just because of disclosure between the two parties. I mean, that’d be between the buyer and the seller. And we’re not privy to that contract. So we are, as a township can send out zoning enforcement letters. And once we send that out, then we just have to follow through with it. And this case, I think we made a little bigger than it was just because I’ve tried to get to the bottom of where we’re at. But I think for the most part, we’re covered.


And the violation is not one violation, it’s a daily violation. So if we wanted to get to that point, we would just say them every single day, until they hit defense.


And that’s what you might do. Again, the court will be will be lenient with people up at Furman. So I’d like to suggest branch questions about open space that was discussed in the in the subdivision regulations, the purpose of open space, I recall as being two things, one, to accommodate the land use plan, which called for open space, and secondly, to provide the developer with a reasonable outlet for retention. Because otherwise they would they would send the overflow anywhere. So there were two purposes of the open space, again, retention. I would like to, just to reiterate what you said about the assessment, and I think zoning should absolutely include I recommend, including any new PRDs or subdivision that the assessment rule will be part of the of the approval process. And in other words, if you don’t have an HOA, we will provide we will do an assessment and handling ourselves, that that becomes part of the care. That would be helpful. Because the open space came up in the Zoning Commission I did a little homework, Chester Township, I think it’s just a township does this to solve the open space problem? A, they acquire the land through eminent domain, calling it a nuisance of or something like that. And then they set up a trust. And the trust directs either demands or requires an HOA or administers itself at the expense of the participating or remove or answer or give by man whoever landowners are. They assess those landowners for the money in the trust for the township to provide the maintenance, but then assessment and trust eminent domain. I go another point regarding the acquisition for the email accounts I would like to offer again, you’re more than welcome to use my credit card The money can be washed until you get your own credit card. But if you’d like, I’d be more than happy to provide the credit cards you need to acquire those email accounts. And finally, there is a birthday tomorrow. And I would like you to consider celebrating it by raising the flag to 200 and 20th. birthday in the state of Ohio is tomorrow, march 1. And and one of your biggest fans donated Ohio State Flag. And I’m wondering if we could persuade bill and maybe raising it on the flagpole?


Yeah, I got a new new rope, because that’s all except for the one flag. So I will see you tomorrow.


Therefore, I wish you a happy state birthday.


Definitely work on that tomorrow.


You are thinking? Okay. Okay. Moving on old business. I got


I got a couple. Really quick. And that is good news. I’m both I’m to two grants out of the park. We were first of all, we were very fortunate to get the recreational trails program grant. Only 12 communities received that. And we were one of them. How much trying to go back and look at that cost. If you haven’t handled and put up


$100,227 Perfect


for 1002 or 300,000 100,227.


You’re still


in the footer. I was gonna bring it up for you.


Guys, you guys did a great job with this, you should have brought this up. But kudos to the park commission and everybody that worked so diligently to get that. There were other two others.


What was our match on that just the only 5%


Jordan had to come back with come back and look at at least at least, I think it was like 2520 to 30% range. So it wasn’t 10 wasn’t for you. You know, we’re gonna get a copy of it shortly


on the restrictions on how we use that. Yeah,


but to be exactly to the plan. Okay. We’ll get that plan out.


And when will we get the money?


Probably reimbursable. And quarters, like as we spend it with you? Yeah. Oh, the other one? That’s


quite Yeah, that’s question Is it reimbursable? Or is it they give us some money can make man that’s a reimbursable that could that could take forever to spend? Not all townships would have. You know,


you spend 10,000 They’ll give you 10, though, yeah, but


a project, like putting Trails is gonna cost 80,000. That’s why you get that’s why you get this grant to cover that.


So yeah, I mean, we have we were we actually were denied the first time. Yeah. And then we had to reapply. So that’s why I don’t know all these details has been two years, but we did. Okay. So what’s the other grant? Do you have the grant the capital budget grant, I got great news today, because they increased it. No, there I can increase it. But we didn’t get past the second hurdle on it. And they said we actually did the capital grant agreement, and requested that I forwarded to legal counsel for review. And with you guys’s blessing, I’m going to send that to


check. So that was 420,000. Up to that


120 as well. For the road.


What was the exact amount?


That was 120,000? Believe? Yes. And then finally, just cleaning up, I think you brought up a note pet grant last time that we received from it. We have two points on that. And we have to get that approved at the meeting. Do I have this? Perfect. Okay, good. I’ll move on.


No, let’s stay with that. You do you would you want to continue doing what you had to do? To do? Some Yeah, because you have been doing it. You’ve done it a couple times. So you know all the ins and outs of it. So okay, good. So that’s


the authorised representative make sure make that


motion in my breath, the authorized. Authorized Representative for our no


Peck community grant. He respects me so you gotta get him a hat.


This is the no state representative a G


or the authorized grant. Or Mike.


Some of the feathering he’s got on top of


the head. Perfect. Okay, then I have to get the next meeting upbringing. We have more time to talk to get approved and get that assigned to someone.


Speaking there, no pet grants. I also submitted the the community. Yes, community registration and then call it the $1,500 $1,500 community event sponsorship program. Nice. So that’s been submitted. I didn’t submit it to them yet, but I sent it I sent on forward to the Chamber of Commerce because there have been managing the lighted up and I the baskets. I’m not sure 100% Sure if they’re controlling that money for that, but I said if they can’t do it, find someone else. Yep. So they can at that. So, so anyway, that’s moving forward. And what was that? What was that? No pet grant for 2023. Which is that


$17,520? Really?


That was more than that. Okay. Just last year, right. That’s what 23 We looked at we may have, we may have had well, okay, look at that’s fine. All right. Your oldest Oh, you don’t your old business. Right? Yes.


Oh, we heard from Matt Weber today. Bill calling a couple different times. He is our engineer for the sewer project. They’re moving along with it. The latest hurdle on that one was we had to get an easement from


first energy. And don’t wonder the Yeah,


and he actually did he’s got some responses going back and forth, which were not copied in on glad bill gets to see all those as it comes through. But he did do a quick, you know, had a guy kind of just throw some numbers in just to kind of see where we’re at that again, this is still probably extremely high. But


this is firstly, we’re


this is for the whole sewer project from


where we’re now


down to new measures dam New Milford. And there’s a lot of stuff in there that again, don’t get sticker shock right now. It’s it’s not necessarily done. Well, not really rough get it? It’s, it’s they’re estimating. We have to have traffic control. We don’t need traffic control department we don’t need Right, right. Right. You know, all that stuff. Talked about, you know, while we might and there’s some things in there such as taking out the old water line. They were up there working on I seen that today. You know, they were up there water resources was so you know, there’s some questions. Right now everything is being sent down to water resources, recent water resources, we’ll get back. So yes, we’re good with this plan. Once they say yes, we’re good with the plan. Then we can send it out for bid. So right now this is just he wanted to get us out and to see where we’re at so


just forefoot SANITARY manhole for for $64,000 to dig a four foot I don’t think I’m thinking I thought the manhole would be four feet wide or something big. Wow. That’s why they buying a new tractor or new backhoe to dig it today. Bedelia.


Yeah, again, this


is just wow. Yeah.


Then they’ll he said once, water resources comes back. This is the Colts and this is the rake. Rake. So we’re in we’re in between?


So I said didn’t know. They’ll put pen to paper and go. Okay. So, but at least they’re moving on moving.


Taking me a Senate. How was this taken is two in front case to the old hearts.


Yep. Not Well,


our concession standard with the newer concession stand. We’re going to put in all the way down and take us all the way down.


Yeah, that would take us all the way down to all our concession stand in the park as it stands right now.


Yes. The hospital section so that just goes to the township concession stand. Correct. Yeah, just us. Okay,


what this one here takes us. How far does this take us


to our honor the township board? Three departments. Yeah. It’s still pretty dang good. But, and it taps on to taps into New Milford


Kelly. Yes. Often New Milford. And when Kelly Kelly Avenue, there’s a stub right. Yeah.


Okay. Are they going up case Avenue though, right.


Southside case,


so they did find that there was some houses hooked on


them a four inch water line that I talked to today said four homes hooked on to a six inch monitor. And they’re in the process of six inch water. Correct. Okay. They’re in the process of moving them all.


water lines on both sides of the road and that’s where Yeah, nobody knew it. Yeah. So they kind of went out there. They went out there with a


Wi Fi actually had a battery operated. That works.


Obviously because they were out there when I’m not getting those in.


It’s because out of the water. I’ve done it works like a champ. So are we getting footing the bill for this water. The thing that the daughter got? I don’t know. Yeah, that’s what I’m wondering, are they time right now to fix all this water stuff? No, no, we’re gonna dump this.


That bill come before I drove through there. They were already working on that. So whatever they’re working on right now would be water resources. Okay. So we didn’t prove anything. So, but again, there’s a lot of things in there when you just start looking like traffic control and, you know, new roads and, you know, a lot of things, rebuilding.


What’s the next step said?


Wait, wait, wait for water resources and governmental. Yeah. So hopefully, hopefully next meeting, we will be able to send something off for Ben and we can really get some good numbers.


printed this nice paper?


That’s why it’s $640,000 because it is heavy stock paper. Not my little lightweight. Okay. Okay, moving on to new business. We have on here grant writer. Let’s talk about that. I know we’ve talked in the past. And I don’t know who I talked to, I don’t know, I think you and I maybe I don’t know, at some point, we talked about a grant writer. If we would have a grant writer, that would get a percentage of the grant that they write. If they get awarded the grant. Let’s say they write a grant for $100,000. Would we be that’s why I want to enter senator, we’d be okay with giving the incentive would be paying the grant writer. I mean, that’s based on stuff that we already said that we do a 10% or 20%, or 80%. What I mean, what we want to do with that


standard in the contract, but the chief has one that we used before for the radios if I remember, right, I thought it


was four or 5%. What we said we would do?


That’s probably pretty low.


I don’t know. Jordan, would we say? Yes, you do. You got a memory? I don’t. I don’t remember what I know. I know, we had talked about it in the


past. So what I’m thinking is, do we want to put this out there that we I know the county is trying to get a grant writer and all this stuff. But but you know, what are we that’s, that’s a split, that’s that split with a lot of people and you know, that I know, when I go to read your planning, like, Hey, if you have something get into us, but you know, that doesn’t always work real well for the townships, from my from my observation, but it’s not like we’re hiring somebody. But if we put out there, that, hey, we’re looking for all sorts of stuff for the park, roads, cemetery. New fire truck, whatever, I don’t know, you know, but curing for in here, you know, just don’t out there. I like what we want to do with grant writer, if we want to find somebody or offer something, hey, you can get us we have a grant. Let’s say we get somebody that’s interested in this. We need to get like the grants we have here that we just talked about tonight. Something else out there. More for the for the parks, you know, because we got, we could do so much there. And it’s gonna require some that this grant writer would get a percentage of that. I don’t know what the percentage would be. But that’s all


I’m open to this. But I think, I think what do we expect reinvent the wheel? No, I like anytime we’d get money that is good. But I think right now we got a couple of them that we think maybe we need to kind of close the door on some of the projects that we have before we started taping, there are a lot more. I love taking money, but I haven’t right now we’ve got a bunch of we just got $102,000. And Bill already yells at me every day because he says he only has eight hours in the day. So to get


another grant, we’re gonna hire another person.


Well, that’s not we don’t get to hire another person. That’s so I mean, we got to catch up on some of the things that we have, but I’m all for it. And I think I think it’s something to talk about, and maybe just kind of keep there but let’s, let’s shore up what we got here first. And, but I do I do like the grant writer concept. A woman does this money.


I don’t have any more new business.


Yeah, no, I didn’t want you just to close.


No, not okay. A year. No more new business. Okay. All right. I’m gonna make a motion that we enter an Executive Session. On this date, February 28th 2023. Trustee policy moves you convene an executive session pursuant Ohio Revised Code section 121 dot 22. Gs a golf for the purpose of considering the following matter to consider the employment of a public employee or official No I will second that


we’re gonna invite Julian yeah Julian’s staying I don’t think we need anyone else doing this is your if we need anybody else for a couple minutes, okay. You okay Sandberg

Ryan Lind
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